Ocalan Declares
Cease-Fire
London MED TV
Television in Turkish 1850 GMT 28 Aug 98
"Teleconference" with PKK leader Abdullah Ocalan
by telephone from an unidentified location, moderated by Gunay Aslan, including
Duygu Leloglu from NTV, Tayfun Talipoglu from ATV, Huseyin Aykol from Ulkede Gundem,
Ali Haydar Yurtsever and Fikret Aydemir from Milliyet, Mehmet Comert from Ihlas
News Agency, Dogan Ozguden from Info-Turk Belgium, MED TV Stockholm
correspondent Mahmut Baksi, Nuray Bayindir from Ozgur Politika, Cemal Ucar from
Dem Agency, Ahmet Yumrukaya from Dunya, as well as Greek, Norwegian, Belgian,
Romanian, Arabic, and AFP correspondents and a Soviet official, Kurdish
parliament-in-exile chairman Yasar Kaya, and Haci Ahmet from eastern Kurdistan
in the studio -- live
(The transcript has been translated by FBIS)
[Aslan] Good evening, Mr. Ocalan.
[Ocalan] Good evening.
[Aslan] Without wasting too much time, I would like you to
express your thoughts to the Turkish and Kurdish media on this historic day.
[Ocalan] Esteemed media representatives, I would first like
to extend my thanks and respectfully greet you with a holy call for peace
through the MED TV channel. For
some time now, we have been encouraged by requests from the EP [European
Parliament] to lay the grounds of favorable conditions for a political
solution. In addition, we were
also encouraged by sympathetic sectors in Turkey that favorable results may
result if the PKK [Workers Party of Kurdistan] launches an initiative for a
political solution. I must quickly
add that war, if not triggered by an important conflict and issue, is
insanity. Moreover, meaningless
terrorism and violence should never have anything to do with human
relations. Our most important
concern is that we, with roots dating back hundreds of years, must not be
victims of violence that can even lead to genocide.
In reply to constant questions on whether the PKK is capable
of taking a step on the Kurdish issue in particular as well as on the
fundamental issues in Turkey and regional peace, we say the following: I
believe that there are no other people and organization with a greater longing
for peace than we if this great violence is stopped, even if for a limited
period of time, and if the method of dialogue is adopted in basic human
relations, in human rights issues, in furthering democracy, and in resolving
political issues. Consequently, I hope that those circles who seek the same
goals as us are consistent in their desires and not involved in petty accounts. I hope that we will not be deceived. We
are only too glad to be able to launch such a step. The initiative we seek to launch is similar to the one we
launched in April 1993 during the Ozal period.
That initiative created hopes, even if limited. I decided after consulting with my
organization that it is appropriate to launch such a step in view of the
conditions reigning outside and inside in Turkey.
I would like it to be clear, however, that this step should
not be interpreted as though we are very strong or very weak or cannot bear the
situation any longer. I sincerely believe that taking such a step meets what is
required of a civilized and modern administration and is the most appropriate
initiative to be launched at this most critical stage in Turkey's history. This step is connected to securing a
lasting democracy, which is the most important issue on Turkey's agenda even
though there are claims that the Kurdish issue is the biggest problem, and
human rights.
We have full faith that peace will be secured in Turkey, in
the region, and in the world if we can only advance this sensitive step, which
is similar to the one we took in 1993 and which gives a chance to the Turkish
public if it only does not let itself be provoked by those circles who think
that their interests lie in war.
I have to stress that there are preparations under way for
the 75th anniversary of the Turkish Republic. I would like to add that we are not against the Turkish
Republic. Moreover, the republican
system, which means a people's government, is our choice of government as well.
It has to be admitted, however, that this republic did not really embrace
democracy for the past 75 years.
The main problem faced by Turkey is to instate democracy in the republic
-- in other words, to democratize the state. All the political circles in
Turkey, both the left and the right wing, voice this opinion every single day.
All the political parties and civilian organizations in Turkey repeatedly call
for democracy. The shortcomings of
the republic on this issue should be assessed honestly and realistically. I am
not blowing the issue out of proportion and am not saying all this just to
debase the republic. The
75-year-old republic did not let its people have a taste of democracy. It did not give too much of a chance to
democracy. Except for a high-level
oligarchic circle, nobody understood anything about democracy. The people, in particular, did not have
a taste of democracy. The word
democracy was used all the time; however, its requirements were never met. On the contrary, the republic imposed
the concept of antidemocracy through its constitution, legislation, and various
organizations including the leaderships of political parties. This state of affairs created a
demagogy around democracy. The
main issue faced by Turkey is to free democracy from being a subject of
demagogy and to have it embraced by the people. This is not tantamount to defaming the republic and
certainly does not mean dividing the republic; it is tantamount to seeking to
democratize the republic.
This is in Turkey's interest. In this way, Turkey, which is gasping for breath now, will
start breathing once again. Those acting on behalf of the republic should set
themselves antidemocracy as a target.
One should not forget that since its establishment, the republic has
subjected the Kurdish people to a great injustice, using uprisings and
antidemocratic actions as an excuse.
A great injustice was committed against various ethnic and religious
circles as well. Injustices were committed against all the poor people of
Turkey as well.
Since the 1970's, in particular, something like tens of
thousands of persons lost their lives in a period of violence and oppression
similar to what happens in the worst fascist regimes. We were the products of this situation. We were not the ones
who created the Kurdish problem. The Kurdish issue has been part of the Turkish
Republic since its establishment.
I believe it is important that I talk about a couple of
articles in the Amasya circular, which is the first document that laid the
grounds for the establishment of the Turkish Republic and which was personally
formulated by Mustafa Kemal. I
want to refer to this circular because everybody in Turkey, in particular the
army, thinks they are Ataturkists.
They claim they are Ataturkists.
This may be true; however, we should not forget that the grounds of the
Erzurum, Sivas, and Ankara congresses and the opening of the Assembly were laid
by the Amasya circular.
The Amasya circular was written during a most difficult
period in Turkey. The naked truths
were revealed during the period of the Amasya circular. In other words, the
Amasya protocol or circular belongs to a period which should have been be
treated extremely delicately because it laid the grounds for the republic. I
would like to read one or two articles of the Amasya protocol.
The borders of the Ottoman Empire consist of the land
settled by both the Kurds and Turks.
The Kurds are an integral part of the Ottomans.
All the national and social rights of the Kurds have been
acknowledged in order to guarantee their free progress.
All the decisions at this meeting were adopted jointly. In reply to a question by Edip Adivar
in Izmit on September 1921, Ataturk said it is essential that the Kurds assume
the post of mayorships in those neighborhoods where they are a majority. In this process, those were the views
of Mustafa Kemal. In other words,
the Kurds have at least as much of a share as the Turks in the foundation of
the republic. The later process, as I have stressed, is antidemocratic. It also runs counter to the foundation
on which the republic rests. I
stress that this must be realized.
I emphasize that the honorable politicians and army members must assess
the foundation of their republic correctly.
Here lies the misunderstanding. The word brotherhood is being uttered frequently, and it is
also being said that, despite the sharing and the brotherhood, Turkey's unity
and sovereignty must not be questioned.
Fine, but who is involved in this unity? And who is attacking the rights of those involved in this
unity? Why should it be separatism
to ask you to understand this? Why
should it be an attack on Turkey's sovereignty? On the contrary.
Who is hurting the essence of the sovereignty by not acting in line with
its foundation? I stress that this must be understood. By resorting to the
greatest violence regarding this point and by erasing even the name of a people
from history -- as was done in the beginning -- certain circles attacked both
Turkey's unity and its sovereignty.
Consequently, we are not guilty.
Those who deny the reasons for all this must be held accountable. I will leave this aside, too, as a
significant historical problem.
Currently, it is impossible to deny that Turkey is going
through a grave crisis -- one at least as bad as the one in the 1920's. The nation may not be in danger, but
society and democratic life are at least as important as the nation, and that
is what is in the greatest danger today.
I stress that all this must be kept in mind and that the chances for a
democratic effort in the name of our peoples must not be wasted. Just as the Turks needed the Kurds in
the early 1920's, they need them today for democracy. The term brotherhood, which is being uttered so frequently
today, can become concrete only on the basis of democratic sharing. Everything else is demagogy.
As for the criticism of the PKK violence, we are the side
that suffers the most from this violence.
If, under conditions of a severe imbalance of power, we opted for an
essential defense method in order to protect ourselves from destruction and
safeguard our most legitimate human rights, identity, and culture, this is
called self-defense and is cited in the UN Charter, even in the Turkish
Constitution. Let us not forget
everything that we are being denied -- our humanity, our national identity, our
human rights. And I am not even
speaking of democracy and human rights.
Everything is being denied us. What were we supposed to do if not resist? Would it be in Turkey's interest if we
had accepted this great injustice?
Would the Turkish people or the Turkish nation emerge from this
honorably? I do not think so. A nation or people who tramples on
another, on the other's identity and name, with such injustice can never be
happy. Such a nation will never
see the end of grave problems.
Consequently, our violence, which is based on self-defense,
must be assessed correctly. PKK
terrorism is mentioned frequently.
If this is very important to you and if you intend to prepare the ground
for a political method and a democratic solution, I say today, on the 75th
anniversary of the republic and in the face of the difficult problems,
especially regarding democracy, that we are ready to do whatever is asked of us
in order to set Turkey -- a country that is pressured almost more than any other
in the world -- on the right course once again, save it from the heavy war
bill, put an end to the grave human right violations, and enable Turkey to stop
being a toy in the hands of the mafia, as the press reports daily. If they insist and if we (?believe)
that they are very respectful, we, too, will respect the law on condition that
they abide by the word and spirit of the law, basic human rights, and
democracy. We are not afraid of
that at all. It is not we who violate it.
Everybody knows who it is that claims to be respectful of the law but
violates it daily and commits the gravest crimes. We alone can offer support in the fight against those
people. There is talk about the violation of the republic's basic principles.
It is not we who are violating them.
On the contrary, Turkey's elite circles, its administration, has caused
this to happen by subjecting us to extreme oppression and boundless
violence. There is talk of the
great damage incurred by secularism.
That is obvious; when the Turkish state attacked us with helicopters, we
were not distributing religious pamphlets.
We did not draw hundreds of thousands of children to Koran
courses. It was the state that did that.
I am not saying that I am for or against all this. That is not what I mean. I mention this because it is an issue
that is being discussed widely today.
We were not the ones who paved the way to the mafia gangs. Those who granted them unlimited
possibilities so that they could kill a revolutionary are responsible. There are daily reports to this effect
in the press. This is not good for Turkey. I say that we are ready to do whatever is necessary in order
to be able to fight all this -- not because we are weak but in order to be able
to make even a limited contribution to democracy and to the brotherhood of
peoples. As a step to this end and
in response to the longings for peace throughout the world, to the EP decision,
and to the quite powerful Turkish public opinion, we have decided to launch an
indefinite cease-fire as a first step -- I do not want to describe it as
unilateral, even though it can be interpreted that way -- as of 1 September so
that some consistent long- or short-term steps can be taken -- and we are not
saying that these are the terms -- in order to resolve the issues, including
the Kurdish question, under more favorable political conditions.
If I elaborate on this a little, and if it is going to be
more meaningful in practical terms, our cease-fire may be two weeks, one
month.... [pauses] We find it appropriate to have a cease-fire given the
current election atmosphere, the amnesty issue that is being debated, and more
urgently, to enable the new command levels in the Turkish army to make an
assessment of the situation.
Furthermore, most basically, we consider a cease-fire appropriate to
ensure that this grave crisis is overcome in a more democratic way, to put an
end to this secret war which is really hard on us and is costing a great deal,
and because we know that Turkey does not benefit at all from this but rather is
hurt by it. All the internal and external conditions indicate that we are in a
more suitable position than in 1993.
We want to react sensitively to that.
I believe that this is also in line with the expectations of
domestic and foreign public opinion.
That is why, if operations are not carried out against us, if operations
designed to destroy the guerrillas are not carried out, we are in control of
our guerrillas and they will not carry out any attacks. Let me say it again: In
order for conditions to improve and a more suitable political struggle
atmosphere to be created, we will not allow any acts of violence from our
side. I believe that none of us
will resort to any provocations. I do not think that provocations similar to
the ones in 1993 will be carried out.
We are in control of our forces in this regard.
The length of the cease-fire, I stress once again, will be
determined in line with the positive nature of the developments that will
occur. The election period may be considered the maximum period, but I am not
giving any guarantees. If the
other side resorts to provocations, if operations are carried out, we will
obviously exercise our legitimate right of self-defense. Really, though, that
would not be our preference. We
say enough to this long-lasting war.
We believe that our peoples will gain a lot from politics, that they
desperately need this, and that this is the core of the problem which must be
resolved. Today, we are offering the key to the solution of the problem. That is how this must be understood.
The concerned circles, the sensitive circles must not assess
this as a tactic. We do not have
such an intention. We may see this
through to the end as a sincere step if guarantees are given, positive
conditions are created, and our interlocutors are credible. Then it will be seen that we are not a
separatist power for Turkey and that we do not hurt its unity or
sovereignty. On the contrary, as a
side that knows very well what labor is and what liberation means, we will do
our share for strong Turkish unity and for a Turkey that is not too dependent
on the outside, one that is based on the sovereignty of its peoples. In other
words, as I always say, we are a most powerful force of democracy and light for
Turkey. We do not accept anything
else. At the same time, however, we are also a force of light and democracy for
the Kurdish people. We are not a
separatist force, as is being claimed.
I want to stress that it is important to understand this well.
Methods based on violence should really not be upheld
much. If conditions dictate, we
can develop our violence more than ever. In fact, violence was implemented to
the highest degree, but no results were achieved. There must be no resort to these methods. The world problems
are now being resolved without violence.
Look at the Chechen problem in Russia, the Colombian problem, the Irish
problem, and even the Palestinian problem. Turkey, which needs this modern approach more than anyone
else, must fall in step because this is the only way it will achieve
happiness. If we are given a
chance -- and I am saying this in front of our public opinion, a public opinion
that wants these problems resolved as soon as possible: Give us a chance to
show our consistency and our constructive approach toward rights and
democracy. If we are given a
chance, we will take steps in the right direction, and everybody will see.
I want to end my statement here. If you esteemed media members want to ask me questions, I
will consider it an honor to answer them.
Once again, our thanks and greetings for having heard us.
[Aslan] We thank you, sir, for making this announcement on
MED TV.
[Leloglu] Mr. Ocalan, it is being said that the organization
has become marginalized in the southeast.
Can you comment on that please? And the second question is: Will HADEP
[People's Democracy Party] take part in the elections? And if it will, will you support
it? What will your stand be in the
general elections?
[Ocalan] Greetings.
A lot has been said about the marginalization of the PKK. As I stressed at the beginning of my
speech, I am not making this call and starting this initiative because we are
powerless or because we have become marginalized. That is not the reason. I want to launch this initiative as a
response to the desires and demands of internal and external sensitive circles
and of the lofty public opinion. Let
me say this about marginalization: As you know, in my previous speeches I
pointed out that efforts have been made in line with the 1992 concept to
destroy us or marginalize us -- that is, ensure that we turn into groups that
disband on their own. The current
situation is definitely not that.
There are certain journalists who carefully assess the PKK's
internal situation and current power. I gave an example in a recent speech. You
honorable press members must follow all that. Sukru Elekdag, for example, who has reliable sources of
information, has said that the PKK is not marginalized. I cannot give you better proof than
that. He says: A 300,000-strong army is on its toes, waiting there day and
night. It is not I who is saying that there is a 300,000-strong army. It is the
journalist with the reliable sources who is saying it. The situation is even
graver.
How can you talk of marginalization in such a situation? The
presence of such a big army means a very big war. Otherwise, why should such an army be on its toes for
marginalized groups? In other
words, the situation cannot be explained in terms of marginalization. In fact, it is even graver. The situation is graver than what it
was in 1995 and 1996.
The situation in the south has also been reversed. Turkey's military force is trying to
the protect the KDP [Kurdish Democratic Party] there. Not only has Turkey not destroyed the PKK, but it is
spending a tremendous amount to keep an army of some 30,000-40,000 men there to
protect the KDP. The same is true
for the village guards. The guards
do not guard; on the contrary, the army is trying to guard and protect
them. That is how grave the
situation has become. It may be
that we have weakened. A careful journalist
or anybody who is interested in the issue, however, will accept the seriousness
and gravity of the situation.
My answer to your second question is that more than with
HADEP, our policy is concerned with the establishment of a general democratic
platform. We approach the matter
from a wider perspective. We do
not approach it only in terms of a narrow election framework. We say that Turkey desperately needs a
democratic leap forward. This
[word indistinct] exists in HADEP. We believe that anyone who believes in
democracy must work for such a platform.
I believe that one aim of our initiative is to strengthen such a
political and democratic effort. I
believe that this will really take place.
[Talipoglu] As a person who visits the area frequently, I
want to ask you the following. I
understand that you are not abandoning arms but merely silencing them. You say that you do not know for how
long and that the period will depend on the stand the other side will adopt.
What kind of specific steps are you expecting? That was my first question. My second question is: What has changed to cause you to
reach this decision? After all,
martyr cemeteries have been dug in almost all the villages and districts of
this country for the past 15 years.
The bodies of the guerrillas are nowhere to be seen. A lot of blood has been shed. Everybody in the country wants the
bloodshed to stop. What was the
change that made you come to this decision? What are we going to tell history?
[Ocalan] Greetings to Mr. Talipoglu. We did not create this historical
problem. It is not the first time
blood is being shed. Remember the Dersim uprising; some 60,000 persons were
killed. Let alone cemeteries,
their bones are nowhere to be found.
In fact, nobody knows exactly how many were killed and where. Remember the Agri uprising, the Seyh
Sait uprising. Who is responsible
for all that bloodshed? I do not
think that we can say it was only the Kurds who were responsible. It would be greatly unfair to always
blame the Kurds. As I showed you
in the document, the Kurds helped you establish this republic. The Kurds gave the Turks most critical
support during a most difficult period for the latter. You must see that. The honorable press members must remind
their public of certain historical truths. That is the first thing.
It is true that there is a martyrs cemetery in every village
and that the cemeteries of the PKK guerrillas are unknown. Let me reiterate, however, that unless
there is democracy or even a freedom of expression -- and this is not true only
for the Kurds... [pauses] Any intellectual who says something honestly is in
prison. Those who illegally make
millions are out free, but those who want to write the truth are
imprisoned. This is true in
connection with the Kurdish issue.
People whose only crime is to write a few articles are in prison. So what do you expect us to do under
such conditions? On the one hand
you say that the Kurds are as much the owners of these lands as the Turks, that
all their national and social rights will be recognized; on the other hand,
even our name is denied. That is
what led to the violence. We are
surely the side that should be held least responsible. We wanted our identity. We wanted our democracy. We wanted our culture. Can anybody live without culture? Can anybody live without
democracy? What do you expect us
to do after even our name has been denied? Despite that, I say that the best
option is to live together, and I am not saying it out of fear. I wish there had been no bloodshed on
either side, that there had not been any of the incidents that daily break our
hearts, and that we could have resolved the problems by discussing them in a
broad democratic platform. Who is
shunning the democratic platform? When were we asked to participate in such a
platform that we refused? Look at Ireland, look at the bloodiest of enemies --
the Arabs and Israel, look everywhere in the world. The Turks and Kurds have shared a common history. No other people helped the Turks as
much as the Kurds. Read in all the history books, you will see that it is
true. In return, we should not
have gotten a unilateral denial of our rights. That is what caused the bloodshed, the martyrs. I respect the martyrs of both sides,
but I say: Enough, there must not be another drop of bloodshed.
If the Turkish administration, or those who rule the Turkish
Republic today, intend to destroy the Kurds, if they think that the Kurdish
identity has been obliterated, that the Kurds are fast disappearing, and will
soon be completely annihilated, then you cannot expect any honorable Kurd who
is loyal to his language and culture and who respects the hundreds of thousands
who shed their blood, to meekly extend his neck to be massacred. You Turks
uphold your honor and national honor.
I do not belittle that. Every nation must be like that. I know that Mustafa Kemal is a great
symbol of national honor. I respect that too. But why do you deprive the Kurds of that? Why do you not accept that the Kurds
have a national honor and an identity honor? I am not the only one saying that; it is cited in the
foundation of the Turkish Republic.
If you accept that, and some say they do, then I say let us stop this
violence. Let us not use violence
for another second. It is I who
wants that. This must be given a
chance. I repeat, I am not saying
this out of fear or because we are incapable of using violence. It is because we really must. If the other side stops violence, you
will see our real demands. We will
be able to show you what real brotherhood means. This opportunity is not being given. That is why blood is being shed. That
is why there is meaningless violence.
We are very sad about that.
You must also be sad. Why
do you not organize press campaigns to stop it? Is this not the most basic problem? You do not write it, but sometimes 50
soldiers are killed a day, and sometimes 50 PKK members. Are these not terrible figures? Why do you not make an issue about
that? Why do you not organize a
campaign to stop it? The press is using banner headlines daily in connection
with a smuggler, a Mafia smuggler.
What is the value of that?
On the other hand, you write only a few lines when 10, 20, or 30
soldiers are killed.
Is the value of a Turkish soldier so low? Why do you not dwell on the pain
involved? Why do you not come up
and say enough? I think that is
the answer to the first question.
As for the duration of the cease-fire, or why we felt the
need for that.. It is certainly
not because we were obliged to. It
must be seen as a goodwill step we took with the hope that it will lead to a
positive echo from the circles we must take into account. We found it appropriate to take this
step not because we were unilaterally obliged to, but because certain circles
conveyed indirectly to us that positive steps may or should be developed and
that it would be useful if we contributed to that.
I think that in the coming couple of weeks we will see if
this is true, if positive developments will really take place. If that happens, it will be very
good. If not, we will have no
choice but to go on with the process that we have been going through for years.
[Talipoglu] What do you mean by concrete developments?
[Ocalan] The most important aspect of that... [pauses] I find the fact that you are
here today as meaningful. You will
notice that this is our second important news conference with honorable Turkish
reporters.
Let me repeat: I find this meaningful and I respect
that. As far as I am concerned,
this is a positive step, and it must be developed.
The second positive step is to prevent any harm from coming
to a single soldier. This is
important. We think of the
soldiers more than our guerrillas.
The death of even one soldier disturbs us. We do not rejoice in that at all. It is very difficult for us. If the Turkish state does not attack us, the soldiers will
not die, the mothers will not cry.
What is wrong with not sending soldiers to attack us and not having
soldiers die? Regardless, the
Kurds are Kurds and will continue to exist. More civilized methods are resorted to everywhere in the
world. If that is done, the
mothers will stop crying. What is
the meaning of all that? Enough of
military operations! Two armies
carried out an operation and achieved no results. Enough! I think
that this has no place in the logic of war. This can go on for 50 years, 100
years.... Some 60,000 have been
killed so far, and if it continues, another 600,000 will be killed. There is no
end to that. That is why I say:
Enough! To stop the death of so
many Anatolian youths, more than the guerrillas, who were killed -- something
that grieves us... [pauses] And
the numbers are not important; 10 on our side or one from the other side -- it
is the same pain. We must not
rejoice in the deaths. Stopping
this will really put an end to our suffering. Unless we are attacked.... [pauses] The army can stay where
it is, we are not saying that it must withdraw completely. You will notice that some people say:
The Turkish Army must withdraw and then we will declare a cease-fire. That is not what we are saying. In fact, we say that we are going to
implement the cease-fire unilaterally.
If the other side attacks us, it means it has ill intentions. Then we will surely not bow our heads
meekly and be massacred. We will defend
ourselves. I have said this
before.
Ours is a most innocent, a most moderate demand. The army can stay with all its
force. We are not questioning the
Turkish state's sovereignty.
We are submitting various assessments on the right
foundations for a sound unity. Why
is this not being taken seriously? The number of IRA members is maybe
one-thousandth of the British army, or even one-ten thousandth.
But what did Britain want? Only that the IRA should declare a cease-fire. The IRA refused for a long time, but we
have seen that after it declared a cease-fire, the problem has been moving
toward a solution. It is similar
to our case. We are declaring a
cease-fire even though our firing force is greater than the IRA's and our
capability to use violence is far greater. I say that certain positive steps must be taken. I want to sincerely believe it will
happen. If it happens, it will be
a truly historical development. It
will be a great step toward democratization on the 75th anniversary of the Republic. It will mean the speedy improvement of
human rights and of Turkey's image both at home and abroad. Democracy is at a deadlock at the
moment. The basic characteristics
of the Republic are being challenged.
They can be reinforced in a more meaningful and democratic
framework. A very high financial
price is being paid. It can stop.
And most importantly, the economy is at a standstill in the war areas. The economic crisis is going from bad
to worse. Stopping the war can bring great economic relief. These are not gains that can be
underestimated for Turkey. And
what will be the price of that? Turkish soldiers will not die, and PKK members
will not die. Is this not a good
thing? It must be encouraged. I
hope that the value of our initiative will become obvious. I do not want to say anything else.
[Baksi] Does this cease-fire concern only the TC [Turkish
Republic], or does it involve the KDP as well? Is there such a desire on both sides in south
Kurdistan? Are you ready for such
a thing? Not only I, but the
Kurdish public, our neighbors, and Europe are curious about that. Such a cease-fire would be as important
as the one with the TC.
[Ocalan] Greetings to you Mr. Baksi. It is true that there is a serious
problem here. Earlier, I had
issued insistent calls in the south both for a cease-fire and for a political
dialogue for the solution of certain important internal problems between us.
Unfortunately, such a will was not observed on the other side. It still is not. Of course, I would have liked a
cease-fire followed by a political dialogue process.
However, the will for that is not observed on the other
side. If I say something
unilaterally now, it will have no meaning. There is no organization that will reply to us. Consequently, I cannot give you a clear
answer regarding this issue today.
If the other side's will clearly emerges, if they say: "There is a
peace problem among the Kurds, the Kurds have certain domestic political
problems, let us solve them, for example by holding a peace conference,"
then my answer will be positive.
On this occasion, I reiterate my call once again to the
concerned power circles, mainly the KDP: Let us stop the violence in order to
discuss and resolve the problems between us both in the democratic and in the
political dimension.
However, the Kurds have the mentality of feudal lords. If the KDP leaders think that they can
finish us off by relying on the great enemy, I cannot do anything. I hope that we will start a
normalization process with the Turkish Republic on which they rely. Maybe then
they too will see the light and be inspired by the positive atmosphere. What else can I say?
[Yurtsever] What was the greatest factor that led you to
declare a cease-fire? Was it the
changing political balances in the region, the fact that the United States
introduced a new dimension to the Syrian-Israeli relations, any possible
changes in the Ankara-Damascus ties, or were you given an advanced recipe for
the solution of the Kurdish problem say through the EU or the United
States? What were the signals you
say you received from the internal and external public opinion? Can you be more
specific about that?
[Ocalan] Greetings Yurtsever. I tried to answer this question very openly. The reason you say that the answer is
still unclear concerns the essence of the issue: I cannot be more specific
because there is nothing clear to be specific about, or because that is what
the situation dictates.
There are indeed certain decisive factors. In more general terms, I can talk about
a deep crisis. The concerned
circles also talk about that. It
is true even if they are not explicit about it. You must all see that.
More specifically, I believe that the solution of the
political deadlock in Turkey can be speeded up by means of PKK initiatives. The
start of a political process depends on the taking of certain steps by the
PKK. It is because I believe in
that that I declared my initiative today.
Also, a new military command level has now assumed office.
Certain assessments have been about Kivrikoglu. It has been pointed out that he has a civilian and political
aspect. I hope that it is
true. The military does not mean
only violence. It was pointed out
at the military ceremonies held in Ankara today that the Turkish army is one of
peace, of honorable peace. There
was talk of its political and civilian sensitivities. So the initiative we took today can give the army this
chance. In other words, giving
this a chance cannot be considered a bad step. Furthermore, there have been
remarks to this effect since the late President Ozal's time. It is being said that it is appropriate
to revive this once again. It is
even being said that the conditions are graver than in 1993 and thus make such
an initiative more essential.
These are the assessments being made. Earlier, I quoted assessments made
by certain sensitive columnists.
Circles that feel more responsible about this issue may value such an
initiative. So, I think that my
initiative is appropriate. Let me
repeat once again that I cannot be more specific, because as you know no party
in Turkey, including the army, can speak openly and truly. They say one thing and do another. It is obvious that there is an
extensive demand for a peace process.
There is an extensive belief that the issue must be moved to a political
channel. I believe in that too.
This has also been effective in my taking this step. These are the factors that played a
role. Our step has nothing much to
do with marginalization, with the south, with the latest US initiatives, or
with the relations between Turkey and Syria.
I would like to make a point here: the assessments made
about us are merciless. It is
being said that even if the PKK wants to, it cannot implement a cease-fire
because it does not have the will.
This was mentioned by Sukru Elekdag in his article about certain
circles. This is a view expressed
by many. I am now showing that we
have the will to declare and implement a cease-fire. I have started this initiative with the freest of
wills. In other words, the
assessments are not true.
Contrary to claims, the PKK is not dependent on outside
forces. This is an important issue
that must be well understood.
Certain sensitive circles are concerned about this point. With our initiative, they will see that
they can believe us. There is no
other factor. The essence of the
issue is as I have said. I believe
that certain circles in Turkey who do not want to give up the war rent will
want to continue with the war, claiming that so much blood has been shed, or
that there are martyrs ceremonies in every village. They are not acting
logically. They act this way
because they are very involved in the war rent. We must be careful about their provocations. There will definitely not be any games
or provocations on our part. We
are sincere. I think that the
sensitive circles in Turkey are now leaning toward such a tendency. This has become a strong view in
Turkey. That is my hope, and that is the right thing to do.
[Yurtsever] Did you receive a very concrete sign from Ankara
that led you to reach this decision?
Is Ankara involved in this?
[Ocalan] It would not be right for me to speak on behalf of
Ankara. Furthermore, this issue is widely exploited in Turkey. We are faced
with the danger that a demagogy can be resorted to in order to hurt the
conditions and to prevent any positive developments. What I want to say is that the view that is interested in a
political process has matured since 1993.
That is my guess. I do not
want to speak on behalf of others. Such a tendency is developing in all the
circles. Reports to that effect have reached us. I do not only mean the army. I am observing all the
important establishments, including the public opinion. This must be assessed well. I wish
everything were more open, that there were a more suitable method, but the reality
of Turkey does not allow for more than that. Actually, you press members have a duty to perform in this
regard.
You must tell the broad public of your democratic opinion
that such initiatives must be started.
I am begging you to do that.
This is not a propaganda.
At the time, we were suspected of exploiting the leave in the army. This is not a matter of leave. It has gone beyond that. We will not exploit that. It is appropriate for the press to be
more sensitive so that a democratic and political process may start on this
basis. There are no serious
obstacles.
And if there are any obstacles in connection with the PKK --
as is being claimed -- we are eliminating them now by taking this step. I believe that the sensitive circles in
Turkey view this positively. That is why you must encourage that. The press is said to be the fourth
force. This force must use its power in connection with Turkey's most
fundamental problem. There are no
obstacles. This is a duty. It is a patriotic duty and democratic
duty. I hope that you will be
brave about that. [passage omitted
on repetitive material in reply to a Greek correspondent's question on how
Ocalan thinks Turkey will react]
[Johansen from Klassakampen, in English with simultaneous
translation into Turkish] Mr. Ocalan, in October, the route of the pipeline
that will transport the oil from Baku to Ceyhan will be determined. Can you comment on that please?
[Ocalan] Greetings.
This is a detail. As far as
we are concerned, there are issues of higher priority. Undoubtedly, political solutions
reached under peaceful conditions will make important contributions to economic
problems as well. In that case,
such pipeline initiatives can be implemented more easily. The solution of the
Kurdish problem will also create a positive and moderate atmosphere for the
solution of the conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia. The same is true for the Aegean and
Cyprus issues too. We believe that
our path for a peaceful solution will positively affect Cyprus and the Aegean
problems as well. We are
considering the issues as a whole.
I believe that this is the right thing to do. When there will be wholesale regional peace, there will be a
resulting stability, and economic activities will be developed mutually. And this does not mean only the
pipeline; there is a tremendous economic potential in these war zones. This will lead to tremendous
riches. That may be the result, of
course. The key, however, lies in
the political solution of the problem.
[Ahmad Kamal from WTV, in English with simultaneous
translation into Turkish] What is the best solution for the Kurdish question?
Self-rule or autonomy?
[Ocalan] Greetings.
You have asked me a question the answer to which must be considered much
later. If the step we have taken
is understood correctly, it is a step to start a political process. We are not discussing the essence of
the problem here. Once the political process starts, once this very oppressive
military tension is replaced by a political debate atmosphere, then we can hold
comprehensive discussions on whether it will be independence, or federation, or
autonomy, or identity and cultural rights, and so on. In very general terms, however, I can say that we will not
act with prejudice. We recognize
the concepts stressed by the sensitive circles, such as Turkey's territorial
integrity or integrity in general, and the state's sovereignty. We do not want
to eliminate these concepts. However, the content of these concepts must be
filled. And it is not only we who
say it.
Some circles say that the state wants to take a
democratization step but is afraid of the PKK. With our initiative today, we are eliminating the grounds
for this fear. It is being said
that unity and sovereignty must be kept in mind. We find this meaningful. Some circles in Turkey are saying that there should be
democratization, that extensive autonomy must be granted to the local
administrations, and that constitutional amendments must be made. We are taking all this into
consideration.
I believe that there is one single basic principle and it is
that if the Kurdish identity is placed under constitutional guarantee, a rich
solution will be reached in Turkey provided operations are not carried out to
obliterate the Kurds or other ethnic groups. We will not have a rigid and narrow nationalistic approach
to the issue. The issue of the
borders is not very urgent. The
tendency in the world is that borders are becoming meaningless. For us, the most important borders are
human rights, democracy, and looking for solutions to problems through
political channels.
If you notice, national borders and geographic borders are
not an issue. There is no need to
be frightened or defensive about that. More riches will be possible in
unity. The Kurdish problem was
pushed to a difficult spot by means of a narrow and nationalistic approach.
Turkey was also placed in a difficult spot as a result of its own denial of the
Kurdish identity. I say that these
two dangerous approaches must be abandoned. The more we keep away from narrow nationalism, and the more
Turkey keeps away from its policies of destruction and annihilation, the more
possibilities will be for a comprehensive solution package. We will not be very insistent or
pushy. We will not set too many conditions. I repeat, however, that in our debates,
we will attach importance to the human right and democracy boundaries, to an
extensive political dialogue, to sound constitutional and legal guarantees. This is connected to the restructuring
of the state too. Everybody in
Turkey wants that. I am convinced
that within this framework we can reach a solution at an advanced level.
[passage omitted on a question in Russian by Nikiforenko Louri from the Russian
Duma Geopolitical Desk, its Kurdish translation, and Ocalan's reply in Kurdish]
[Aslan] I would like to summarize. Our guest said that he and his deputy friends sincerely
support Mr. Ocalan's cease-fire decision, and asked him if any international
conferences will be held to make the international public aware of the
decision. Mr. Ocalan said that he
wanted to take a step to enable the Turks and Kurds in Turkey to solve the
problem with their free will. He
pointed out that there is close interest from the EU and other institutions to
the Kurdish problem in Turkey and to the Kurdish problems in the other regional
states. He stressed that the
Kurdish question has gained an international dimension. He noted that international conferences
to be held on the issue will help Turkey solve the Kurdish problem, and that
the Turkish state should not feel disturbed by them. He said that ever since the Kurdish problem gained an
international character, the regional countries, Russia, the EU, and others
have been showing an interest in this problem.
[Ahmadi from Al Jazirah Television, in English with
simultaneous translation into Turkish] What kind of international or regional
reaction do you expect to your cease-fire decision? From Syria, for
example? How will your decision
affect the regional states?
[Ocalan] I believe that it will have a positive effect. There is a misconception. It is being said that Syria uses the
PKK as a trump card in its relations with Turkey, that it uses it with a bad
intention. As far as I am
concerned, this is not correct. I
do not think that Syria makes special efforts to this end. Turkey acts too suspiciously regarding
this issue. It is frequently being
said that the PKK does not have the will to declare a cease-fire. On this occasion, I have shown that
this is not true. Based on my long years in the Middle East, I can say that
contrary to allegations, none of the Arab countries, specially not Syria,
intend to create confusion or chaos inside Turkey.
If that were true we would have known. Syria could have done this openly
too. It does not do that but it
would like to see... [pause] It is afraid of the alliance developed between
Turkey and Israel. That is what it is questioning. There is also the water issue. It has reservations about that. Just as in the Aegean and Cyprus issues, Syria wants a
dialogue. I have not noticed that
it uses the PKK as a trump card for that dialogue. I have not heard that it is imposing this. I underline this. I have not seen
anything negative in its approach to our step. In fact, the impression I have indirectly gotten is that
Syria is pleased with this step.
Earlier, when similar initiatives were taken in 1993 and later, Syria
did not oppose them. In fact, it indirectly indicated that it would help. It
would be unrealistic to claim the opposite.
[Aykol] Mr. Ocalan, you said that the cease-fire is
unfortunately not relevant for the south.
There are developments in connection with the Turcoman state project
which you talked about in the past.
Even the KDP is beginning to fear that. There are reports that some 400 Turcoman militia have been
armed and trained. A while ago, we
heard that the KDP attacked the Turcomans because of that. While inviting Turkey to remain in its
lands in order to help it fight the PKK, how will the KDP prevent the
Turcomans? A second question: does
the cease-fire in the north mean that the guerrillas in the north will be
withdrawn to the south?
[Ocalan] Greetings.
No, it does not mean that the guerrillas will be withdrawn. The guerrillas will remain where they
are. They will merely not launch attacks.
They will not go on with the planned war. That is what the cease-fire
means. If there is an insistent
attack from the other side, the guerrillas will exercise their legitimate right
of self-defense.
This is the issue that must be explained most clearly. As for the south, the situation is
complicated. Not only that, but
the KDP does not want to bring a meaningful political solution to any of the
problems. It is constantly
exacerbating the problem. It is
trying to solve the problem unilaterally.
For example, even though the relations it establishes with every
neighboring country are against the interests of all the Kurds, the KDP resorts
to secret methods and claims that the issue concerns part of the area. In the past, for example, it hit the
Iranian Kurds and then claimed it was a problem of the south. It then hit the Kurds in the north, and
then claimed it was a problem of the south. If you notice, the KDP has an extremely wrong approach. The secrecy of its relations surely do
not mean that the relations are right.
The KDP is developing very dangerous and wrong ties with almost every
country connected to the Kurds. Consequently, the KDP should realize that it
cannot deceive anyone. It is conducting
very dangerous relations that concern all the Kurds. These relations constitute a great danger for the Kurds and
concerns almost all of them.
History is full of similar examples. Based on this, I say that the KDP
must put an end to this period. It
must put an end to the violence aimed against all the Kurdish segments, and
accept an internal peace and internal political law among the Kurds. For this, it must come to a dialogue
and even to an urgent peace conference. I renew my appeal: The Kurdish people
are no longer the old Kurdish people. While things are moving toward a
political solution, the KDP must abandon its policies that are against other
Kurdish segments and come to a dialogue on issues that concern all the Kurds. It must do that openly. It must accept the cease-fire as a step
toward that. I hope that this new
initiative will lead to that too.
What will happen if the KDP fails to come to a
dialogue? Its position will
exacerbate in the south. We are
not happy about that. I repeat: we
want to reach an agreement on the political principles that are valid for the
Kurds. This is the right of all
the Kurds as well as a duty that they must all fulfill.
[Ozguden] Mr. Ocalan, I want to ask you three
questions. The first is about your
timing. Is your timing
realistic? The Turkish Republic is
celebrating its 75th anniversary this year. The celebrations have already
turned into ultranationalistic ceremonies. Another point is that the Turkish society is currently
hysterical about its flag, land, national anthem, Ataturk and so on. Also, there is an election atmosphere
in Turkey. During the election
campaign, even the most powerful parties refrain from proposing a political
dialogue with the Kurdish national movement. Lastly, have the recent changes in the upper echelons of the
army really encouraged you? Will
the fact that Kivrikoglu became the new chief of the General Staff bring any
significant changes? My second
question concerns the international economic crisis which started in the Far
East and now reached Russia. This situation will lead to authoritarian
tendencies in many countries, including democratic ones.
This may be used as a good pretext by the Ankara
regime. What do you think? My third question is whether you have
received an encouraging signal regarding your initiative from the European
countries, particularly from the Scandinavian countries that have become
specialized in the field of peaceful solutions? Last, but not least, if the
answer to your appeal will be negative, how will the Kurdish national
movement's power of resistance carry to the third millennium? How is the
national congress developing?
[Aslan] Thank you, Mr. Ozguden. You have asked a very
comprehensive question. Yes, Mr.
Ocalan.
[Ocalan] Good evening, Mr. Dogan Ozguden. My response to your first question is
that there may be efforts to crush difficult problems and cover them up with
chauvinistic stands. The other side is also striking, however.
The Republic does not find itself in such a healthy situation
during its 75th anniversary. The
nature of the crisis is out in the open. This is where these chauvinistic
feelings stem from.
What we are doing is offering a choice. We are saying that there is no reason
why one cannot talk about this democratic republic in its 75th
anniversary. We are saying that
there is no reason why we cannot view these steps as a method of solution. We,
the politicians have to keep our hopes up. I do not believe that chauvinism can give rise to too many
hopes. The chauvinism pursued for
75 years did not yield any results.
I am not talking about the exacerbating situation. The crisis under way encompasses all
the institutions of the Turkish Republic.
What we are doing is giving them a chace during the 75th anniversary of
the Republic. I hope that this
will be taken into consideration. It is their business if they do not take it
into consideration.
There is another issue. The political parties are constantly talking about democracy
and democratic alliances. They
claim that no political party can come to power without forming a democratic
alliance. In my opinion, it is
evident that such a step will have a positive impact on developing healthy
democratic alliances. Politics and political alliances will gain in importance
and there will be certain political parties, which will be encouraged to take
progressive steps. A democratic
alliance, which includes in its program Turkey's most important issue, can even
come to power because it will be the best option. Those political parties that exclude the main problem from
their program cannot exist in Turkey.
And such an understanding cannot take hold in Turkey. An alliance, which avoids tackling such
an important issue, can gain the support of its grassroots only by force. Turkey's option for 2000 will be those
who can engage in a democratic discussion, those who bring solutions to
Turkey's main problem, and those who set up an alliance to this end. >From
wherever you look at it, a broad-based democratic alliance is the best option
available for Turkey. For this
reason, I believe that our step will have a positive impact on this
process. In my opinion, the period
of those parties who reject and remain indifferent to such alliances are over.
With regard to the development of the Kurdish national
movement and the PKK in 2000, nobody should have any doubts that we will
survive. I believe that Turkey's enlightened circles know this very well. This
is the most backward move that the Kurdish national movement will ever make. The Kurdish national movement has the
ability to advance, but it will never go backwards. Everybody is aware of this.
The Kurdish issue will become bigger in 2000 and later. We should take into consideration the
world conditions surrounding us before this issue becomes too big to handle and
turns into the main problem in 2000. Consequently, limited minds may regard the
possibility we presented of securing a solution as a dream.
For great minds who already think about the year 2000,
however, it is the best thing.
[passage omitted on economic crisis in the world] I can answer any other
questions if there are any.
[Aslan] I believe there is the question of your expectations
from Europe, in particularly from the Scandinavian countries.
[Ocalan] I would like to say that contrary to popular
belief, the Scandinavian countries are not that interested in the Kurdish
issue. They may have their own way of showing their interest, however. We did not receive too much support from
them and do not have too much expectations. Our expectations are with the Turkish public. We attach more importance to the steps
that are taken by the public and sensitive circles in Turkey than those
abroad. The Scandinavian
countries, however, can also assume a role on this issue. They can extend us their support, and
we expect them to do so. I believe
that this is the right time to show this support. I think that another part of
the question was the element of timing.
The timing of this initiative is very good, even though Turkey may not
show too much willingness. In my opinion, the transfer of duties at the
military command is very appropriate.
I know that the Turkish Army is having a difficult time with this
issue. It is being said that the
grounds of Kivrikoglu's stands are based on civilian politics. This actually has nothing to do with
us. Supposedly, he is
moderate. I hope, for our sake,
that he is so.
This is not a choice, but a reality. I think that it will be good if it is
so. We are also giving a
chance. This is a good thing even
if it does not work. In this way,
we will have made our mark on history.
The Turkish Army is having a very difficult time. In particular, those soldiers who are fighting
are having a very difficult time. For this reason, I think that the timing is
very appropriate. In my opinion,
launching a peace process toward 2000 is very befitting the situation in
Turkey. Until when can this war
continue? Why should we insist on
this war when not even a slight distance has been covered and when the
situation has been exacerbated?
This situation helps us to think about this issue from another angle. This situation actually tells us that
our way is the right way. I am not
wrong.
Undoubtedly, there are numerous circles in Turkey who seek
to expand the war. The
chauvinistic circles are very strong.
It is true that the political parties are competing with each other and
provoking each other. The
realities, however, are stronger than demagogies and provocations.
It is neither out of weakness nor resignation that we are
proposing a more lasting method. I
am talking about moral issues here.
Launching such an initiative for the World Peace Day is not a sign of
weakness. It also does not mean that we are dreamers. This initiative is a message to the discerning circles. It will be very good if they understand
this message. Nobody will lose
from this. The Turks will also not
lose. The only people who will
stand to lose from this issue are the profiteers. In my opinion, everybody
except them will gain from this.
We will be very happy if this step will succeed. If this step does not yield successful
results, however, we are at a better military position today than yesterday. We are capable of fighting a legitimate
war of self-defense in a more organized manner. As I said before, we are actually at a better position today
to carry out our military operations the way we like. I think it is important to draw your attention to this fact.
[Aslan] I would like to remind our guests that there is a
new process launched here. There
will be intensive discussions on this process in the coming days. There will be discussions in MED TV and
we hope that the Turkish media will also take up this issue. Our time is getting short and we do not
want to take up more of Ocalan's time.
Is there anybody who waives the right to ask a question? We can proceed.
[Comert] I will ask a short question. Good evening Mr. Ocalan. I would like to ask the following
question at first. You say that
the Kurds were not even mentioned in the Turkish Republic and that the
statistics never included us. My
question is as follows: A lot of Kurds claim that they did not exist until Apo
[Ocalan] created them. Why are there so many Kurdish citizens getting killed in
southeast Anatolia if you created them?
My second question is that Belgium had 330,000 soldiers some 10 years
ago. The number of these soldiers
was lowered to 50,000 because of the cost to the state. There are reports from various sources
that you have 10,000-15,000 militants.
Where do you acquire the financial resources for these militants? How will you explain this to our
nation? There are doubts
concerning the origins of these financial resources.
[Aslan] Thank you, Mr. Comert. Yes, Mr. Ocalan.
[Ocalan] There is an unfortunate saying with regard to the
Kurdish people. It says that the
Kurdish people have a lot of traitors.
We did not invent this saying.
Those who brought into being such a saying should be ashamed of
themselves.
I take this opportunity to issue a call to the village
guards. I believe that both the state and we will take up their situation once
again.
Their position will gain importance, particularly, during
the period of this cease-fire. We
believe that they should be approached immediately with offers of establishing
political and social relations.
The state will anyhow not have any more need for the village
guards. We say that they should no
longer be afraid of us and improve their relations with us.
I think that our forces will show understanding on this
issue. We are thinking of issuing
an additional call in the future, if the cease-fire proceeds. The village guard
system is a very important issue for Turkey. It is a very important economic, social, and political
issue. We will show understanding
so that this issue is resolved.
The connection of this issue with your question is as
follows: No Kurd will die. We will
even try to pardon the Kurd who fought the bitterest of wars with us. It is not us, however, that pit the
Kurd against another Kurd. Let he
who pits a Kurd against another Kurd be ashamed of himself. I hope that this cursed weapon used
against us for hundreds of years will not be used against us any more. We are resigned to a hellish sufferance
for the sake of an honorable life as a Kurd. Why should we shoot at a Kurdish child or a miserable
Kurdish woman? What have we got to
gain from this? We are feeling
great pain. We hope that this pain
will end as soon as possible.
With regard to the origins of our resources, I believe that
the Turkish press knows very well who had a good stroke of fortune with
mafia-like methods. There are
questions as to why the European Kurds are assisting the PKK to this
extent. The German police declare
the amount of money contributed to the PKK. Yes, it is true that the people are assisting us
greatly. I must add, however, that
we live a meagre life and are satisfied with very little. You can rest assured that we did not
receive any money from any state and any illegal money. I hope that
correspondents like yourself can investigate into this matter.
There is not even one PKK member who is incarcerated on
charges of drug smuggling. On the
other hand, international courts are talking about the high-level politicians,
who are involved in drug smuggling and state-gang connections. There is not even one PKK member
imprisoned on drug smuggling charges.
I want to draw your attention to this fact. We have not forced anybody to contribute money to us. No
state has extended us help. On the
contrary, they want money from us.
This is the situation.
The Kurdish people has organized itself in the international
platform, which is really extending support. I take this opportunity to offer my appreciation. Rest assured that the Kurdish people is
capable of sacrificing all that it has for the sake of this movement. This is the situation and it is wrong
to look for other reasons. I greet
you.
[Ucar] Good evening, Mr. Ocalan. The Turkish Government officials said a day before your
cease-fire declaration that they will not [word indistinct]. They said that they will respond only
after you declare your cease-fire.
What kind of a response would you like the Turkish government to make in
face of your cease-fire declaration?
What kind of a statement would you like the Turkish Foreign Ministry to
issue in reply to your call? My
second question concerns the appointment of Kivrikoglu as the chief of the
Turkish General Staff. The
European public describes Kivrikoglu as moderate. You yourself has assessed him in this manner, as well. Is this appointment dangerous? Do you
think that Turkey appointed Kivrikoglu as the chief of the General Staff out of
tactics, in order to improve its relations with the EU? Do you think that this
move will have an impact on the cease-fire? My third question concerns the United Revolutionary Forces
Platform. The leftist movement in Turkey, the PKK, and the ARGK [People's
Liberation Army of Kurdistan] are active in this platform. How do you think this cease-fire will
affect this platform?
[Ocalan] The Turkish Foreign Ministry will most probably
issue a classic statement tomorrow. They will probably reiterate the already
known political stand. I do not
think that we will be faced with a balanced self-confident statement. It would have been better if we could
have received another kind of statement.
There are other things that concern us, however. We do not take such initiatives on the
spur of the moment. We are taking
these steps in order to bring solutions to some important problems faced by
Turkey. Those who are involved in this issue will most probably give a thought
to our initiative. In my opinion,
they have a lot to gain from an affirmative response. Otherwise, it is not too difficult for us to continue on our
way. We are anyhow immersed.
With regard to improving the relations with Europe, the
appointment could be used as a tactic.
The General Staff can say that they are ready to establish relations
with the PKK after the declaration of cease-fire. They can, on the other hand, also launch efforts to eradicate
the PKK as soon as possible. Such
a stand is tantamount to deceiving one self. I suppose that the ruthlessness of war has by this time
proved to both sides that the conflicts can not be resolved with cheap
tactics. I believe that cheap
tactics will not be enough to undermine such a initiative, however.
I believe that this process will meet with more
understanding than the 1993 process.
I do hope it will be so. Of
course, the opposite may happen as well.
We are ready for the other eventuality, as well. The whole world and Turkey will know
that we are in favor of peace. I
do not think that this will hurt us.
[Aslan] There was also the question concerning the United
Revolutionary Forces.
[Ocalan] It is obvious that this initiative will not harm
the United Revolutionary Forces. This is mostly a political organization with a
democratic platform. I believe
that they will also take into consideration our assessments. There are very important points they
have to discuss. Democracy in Turkey is very important for the revolutionary
forces. A political development
and platform can pave the way to other developments. I believe that they will
have a favorable reaction.
[Liviu Papescu, in English with superimposed translation
into Turkish] Mr. Ocalan, you have been optimistic in your approaches and
assessments. Will you adopt a
different war strategy in the event that Turkey's response to your initiative
is negative?
[Ocalan] Good evening.
It is not like we are not thinking about this as well. I would like to point out that we are
very intensive on this subject. We
are increasingly developing our understanding of war and implementations. We will adopt a diverse outlook on war
in the event that this initiative of ours will not meet with a positive response.
We will, principally, reorganize our military forces. We will introduce a better understanding of command and
unity for our military forces. We
will also take into consideration the possibility of carrying out more
comprehensive actions. It is not
like we do not have any alternatives on this issue. Our military forces can be advanced to a higher level of
military standard after reorganization. We have initiatives launched along
these lines as well. I want to
make it clear that this is not my preferred choice.
I take this opportunity to admit that I forced myself to
concentrate on war in the last period.
I did this against my wishes.
I forced myself into this.
I want to specify that our military forces will take more organized
steps if our initiative and the political conditions will not yield
solutions. We should not be the
only ones to lay down the arms.
Let there be no miscalculations. It is not right to expect us to lay down our arms without
first resolving the fundamental problem. Weaapons lose their importance once a
difficult situation is on the way to be resolved.
This is more meaningful. It is inevitable for the Kurds to become soldiers when the
issue is at a stalemate and when there is no serious solution in view. This is
a first step we are taking. There
may be significant ensuing developments.
There are important competent authorities. I believe that these authorities can secure developments.
This, however, should not be a preferred choice. In my opinion, what is right is to
accept this initiative as it is.
[Sofia Iordauldou, in English] Mr. Ocalan, with all respect
because I do not think my previous question was all translated, I do not know
if it was, I will stay at the right timing and the chauvinist attitude of the
Turks. I will repeat that in the
recent few days President Demirel talked about a 132 rock islands that belong
to Turkey and not to Greece. I
would like your position on that.
My second question is that the PKK and you personally always accused the
Turkish state, government, and the people for the genocide of millions of
Syrian and Greeks from Asian Minor.
Will the political solution also imply the end of the genocide
issue? And, while Ataturkism is
still alive and strong in Turkey, do you really think that there could be
democracy? Thank you.
[Ocalan] Demirel delivers these kinds of speeches all the
time. This initiative, however,
does not reinforce the statements issued to the neighbors. A political dialogue with the Kurds
will definitely have a positive impact on the Aegean and Cyprus issues. In
other words, the initiatives launched by the Greek and the Cypriot people to
secure friendship will only be reinforced. The Kurdish-Turkish friendship will also become a true
friendship. With regard to the Cypriot people, the chauvinistic prejudices will
be eliminated and the two peoples will approach each other. We will take care
that this happens. Actually, this is the basis of our initiative.
The genocide is a reality. We can never bring back the dead. We will, however, always
talk about the injustices they suffered. We will also claim that these people
have cultural rights. The
Assyrians, the Armenians, and the Greeks have cultural heritages. We believe
that all these peoples should assume their places within the Turkish mosaic.
Undoubtedly, this is prevented by the existence of an extreme
chauvinism. There are efforts to
prevent the formation of a democratic mosaic under the guise of separatism and
with claims that the Sevres Treaty is sought to be revived. Our initiative,
however, will most certainly make a positive contribution to this issue. Only within the framework of this
mosaic can Turkey's unity and wealth have any meaning at all. A nice picture
will not emerge if the whole of Anatolia is painted over with black. A mosaic-like Anatolia is really the
best of pictures.
Allegiances have been part of this land for hundreds of
years. It goes without saying that
the cultures and ethnic existence of these allegiances should be
respected. Turkey's unity should
be reviewed within this framework.
We will always take care to safeguard this picture and exert efforts to
secure a real democracy. Let
nobody doubt this. This should not
be used as an instrument to engage in a demagogy that we are undermining and
dividing Turkey's unity. This is
wrong and nobody has anything to gain from it.
[Talipoglu] [passage omitted on his views on the Greek
correspondent's remarks] What will you do during the time until your
expectations become true? Will you
wait with your fingers on the triggers on mountains? Let us say that your initiative was accepted. What will the PKK do then? In other words, will the PKK set up a
political party? What will happen
when this war is over?
[Ocalan] This situation was not my choice. If you noticed, I offer a cease-fire
with the best of conditions for Turkey. You will realize when you look at other
similar organizations that our cease-fire has the most favorable conditions.
This should be received with understanding. You correspondents know what is going on in the world and
realize the gravity of the issue.
I do not think that there can be any approach more moderate than mine.
We made no unjust demands. The army is at its place. We have not posed any conditions. There is a great problem at hand. What can be expected?
Some modern approaches should be adopted.
You say that it is not too healthy to wait with arms in
hands on mountains. The guerrilla
is seeking for a political solution. Rest assured that the guerrilla can be
transformed into a civilian defense force in the event that sensible steps
toward a political solution are taken.
The guerrilla can always be transformed into a security force.
You can always claim that this is a set up. No, this is not
a set up. We can always be a security force for the people, and I believe we
can perform these duties better than the village guards. A force, which sacrificed so much for
its people, can probably be good at protecting the people. If you notice, there is no threat to Turkey
here and no claims on borders. A
security force can be transformed into a protective force for the people. I suppose that the Turkish Army, whose
identity is defined in the Constitution and which adheres to democratization
efforts, will no longer need to carry out attacks if there is a final solution,
which is backed up by a provision in the Constitution. I want to believe that it will not
carry out attacks. For this reason, there is no need for a military force since
there will no longer be attacks.
The dissolution will come by itself, but there should be a very serious
political solution under way. The
guerrilla issue will most certainly be resolved if there is a very serious
political solution process under way. This is the most important issue. The guerrilla issue will no longer pose
a problem if a confidence-building situation is created and earnest political
initiatives launched. As I said
before, these efforts can be transformed into an effective democratic
undertaking. The politicians' response is up to them.
You cannot expect the politicians, who have never told the
truth to their own people, to say something meaningful and fair about us. You know better than me the Turkish
political life.
[Aslan] Will you meet face-to-face with our other
colleagues?
[Ocalan] Let me shed light on this issue. I hope that another discussion of
better quality will be held. There
may some difficulties on the way; however, I hope that the possibility of
conducting meaningful tete-a-tete and one-to-one meetings will emerge. We will
know more in the coming days. I
would like to say that from now on we welcome any meetings with the esteemed
press members, if they are interested to hold in-depth discussions on the
issue. I call on them to show
sensitivity to this issue and I hope that, in this way, a more positive period
will be launched.
[Leloglu] Mr. Ocalan, there are rumors that you are
presently in Syria. For how long
can you count on Syria's support in the event that Turkey does not give an
affirmative response to your call?
[Ocalan] Good evening.
This is a prejudiced approach. It is not appropriate with the current
situation to comment on Syria's support. We have always counted on ourselves
when adopting policies and safeguarded all our relations. Our willpower is the determining cause in
all the relations we developed with all the forces and states. In other words, we have a strong
basis. This is also true for
Turkey. We are talking to Turkey from our own freewill. I cannot say that we
are pursuing joint policies and taking joint steps with Syria, because it is
not true. All this issue is
misinterpreted in Turkey. All this
could have been conducted out in the open, if they were true. I could have issued more concrete
statements along these lines.
I had tried at the time to further the Syrian issue when we
received indirect messages. We brought the situation to this stage by our own
free will, probably because I am really not interested to put the pressure on
Turkey. Syria could have offered
us great possibilities, if it only wanted. I have to say clearly that Syria did
not give us permission to bring any equipment. This is the situation. Which support will it cut off? We only
go to Syria from time to time because there is a substantial Kurdish population
there. Moreover, the Kurdish population in Syria has a significant political
power. They have real power. It is
understandable, therefore, for us to conduct visits to Syria from time to time.
It is important to understand Syria's interest in us from this viewpoint. Syria is not really a problem. It will
be better for Turkey to establish healthier relations with Syria. It is wrong
to consider us an obstacle in establishing relations with Syria. In my opinion,
it is completely justified to think that Syria can assume a more constructive
role on this issue. There have
been initiatives to this end in the past.
I hope that this point will be taken into consideration.
[Leloglu] Do you agree with reports that Greece is openly
supporting the PKK? There are
reports to the effect that the PKK has opened a second bureau in Greece. What have you got to say on this
matter?
[Ocalan] The support that may be extended by foreign
countries does not comply with international realities. Turkey has committed a grave error
along these lines. It was Turkey
that gave this trump card to all foreign countries and states. Turkey did everything in its power so
that the PKK does not open bureaus. I would like to give the incident in
Slovakia as an example. Supposedly, the government approached Slovakia, where
MED TV had permission to broadcast, and offered a business credit for $200
million if they suspend the broadcasts.
The Slovaks then canceled the agreement they had with MED TV. This is not a good thing.
It is not good politics to use $200 million as a bribe. Turkey did the same thing in all the
Scandinavian countries. Norway was
the last country in the line. The
government contributed in the construction of refineries and oil pipelines.
Norway sought to approach us, but it stopped now. The same thing was done in Sweden
beforehand. They did the same
thing in all the European countries including Russia. They are also threatening certain other countries. This is not right. They are threatening Greece. The Greek
people have sympathetic feelings for us.
This is a democratic sympathy.
I do not think that the Greek have a very bad impression of
the Turks. It is not right to think like that. This is chauvinism. There are
points of conflict between the Turks and the Greeks. Is it too much to ask the friendship of Greeks? There are
claims that we went into alliance with the Greeks against the Turks. Claims that we went into alliance with
the enemies of the Turks. In my
opinion, this is an outmoded way of thinking. It is better to further peace both in the Aegean and
Cyprus. It is better if we do not
impose this extreme chauvinism to our peoples. It has become obvious that this chauvinism poisons political
and social relations. My duty is not to feed chauvinism, but to safeguard the
friendship among the peoples.
[Vanafiadis, in English] I wish you were among us so that we could see your face, your expressions, and see how you react to our comments. After a 14-year struggle, you have been one of the most wanted men in Turkey. I have the feeling that Turkey describes you as a terrorist in the same way as Israel described 'Arafat as a terrorist. Do you think that Turkish high-level politicians will one day be ready to shake hands with you? Will they one day be able to talk about Kurdistan? How far reaching is the cease-fire you said you will start as of 1 September? Does it apply in case there are no reactions from the Turkish forces? What is your time limit in the cease-fire? Do you expect any provocation in the following days? How long is the logical period for the Turkish Army to abstain fr